qprdot.org

[wrinklyhoop]

[Don]

[Stan]

crazy scenes from tahrir square today!
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next year, we'll be champions..

[W13hoop]

'wtf do you think will happen to the price of oil if Saudi Arabia falls? The current recession will seem like a picnic when the price of oil doubles, & that, my naive friend, will effect you in a big way.'

Price of oil? I am not talking about the price of oil.
WTF do you think will happen to the price of oil if Israel attacks Iran?

To Don and Lee its nice to see you can contribute to the thread , if you are only going to post to attack me then kindly don't bother posting at all.

What we have seen today is shameful , the desperate Mubarak supported by his US and Israeli allies has now resorted to the last option available to him ,get his henchmen and his secret police onto the streets to stir up violence in an attempt to divide the people and scare them away from protesting.

It will not work, this is clearly a real revolution not one backed by any external forces but a genuine grass roots hunger for real change.

But isn't the United States supposed to be a supporter of democracy?

Only when its on their terms.

HYPOCRITES.

[Don]

[W13hoop]

resident anti-semite ? come on Don you didn't think too hard about that one did you.

I would be fine if you contributed to the thread with an opinion on the subject matter rather than just name call , its a pretty childish position from someone who I believe to be considerably older than myself.

Ha ha , you are the classic ant semite crier ! - now you are even calling me Hitler! Have you borrowed the manual from Stan and Jimmy or do you all own a copy?

As mentioned previously in this thread I have heard reports from people that are on the streets that have been confirmed by other eye witnesses on mainstream news even the BBC confirming that the 'pro mubarak' mob are nothing but secret police and govt sponsored henchmen ordered to physically assault the protesters and cause maximum chaos.

I will tell you what I find strange , the fact the United States is supposed to be such exponents of freedom and democracy yet when it comes to Egypt and Mubarak they seem to quickly forget those alleged principles because it does not suit their foreign policy.

That to me is very hypocritical.

Let Egypt have a democratic election and see who the people want to govern their country , it has NOTHING to do with us and we have no right in meddling in their affairs.

[Don]

The whole thing is very confused at the moment. History teaches us that we only find the 'truth' in a given situation many years after the event, if ever. I understand that it's been suggested that the pro-Mubarak demonstrators are secret police. They may well be, but I don't think it's been proven. Yet you take it as gospel because it backs up your standpoint.

You may not hate Jews, per se, but that's how a lot of your remarks in the other thread came across to me.

Stan and I share the manual with Lee - and a lot of other people.

And watch the reflexive pronoun abuse. There's no excuse for that.
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I'm Ray Gardner. I drink Blackcurrant Tango. Come and get me!

[Lee Gib]

[Stan]

I suppose Israel should take it as a compliment that W13 credits her with so much influence in Egypt. The crap W13, who had a friend visit Cairo 2 weeks ago, is actually very funny.

My good friend in Cairo, who has been heavily involved in the Democracy movement in Egypt since I've known him, sent me a fairly detailed e mail on what's happening in Cairo today (afternoon his time). I'll post it on here tomorrow because for some reason I cant access it from home.

I'll take his insights into what's going on in Cairo ahead of W13s fantasies or what we see on the BBC, CNN etc.
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next year, we'll be champions..

[WA Hoop]

A bit of levity required me thinks...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n04d_the-bangles-walk-like-an-egyptian_music

...well, someone had to!
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Life is short, drink the good wine first.

[UpperP]

[Esox Lucius]

Here's a friend of mines take on the unrest...

"speaking of Cairo, isn't it fantastic to have camels to go to protests on? it's like something from Lawrence of Arabia! that's where those swampies from UK uncut went wrong, they turned up in black cabs and the like. "Tarquin! Tarquin! quick, we're off to hound the shoppers at Vodafone in Oxford Street. get the camels!!"

[dm]

A bit off topic but thought some might be interested in Louis Theroux's latest offering on BBC2 tonight - Ultra Zionists: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ybyxp
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[Stan]

I know W13 love Haaretz. This article is one of the reasons I think this upheaval in the Arab world will be a good thing for Israel & the world in general. Democracy is the way forward.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/hamas-worried-upheaval-in-arab-world-will-spill-into-gaza-1.340690

Also, on Saturday there's due to be large demonstrations in Syria for democracy. Unfortunately Syria is a much more closed society than Egypt so crushing them will be easier to hide. Here's hoping!
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next year, we'll be champions..

[W13hoop]

calm down Lee! Deep breaths.

The info I saw on the BBC that mentioned the pro mubarak supporters were secret police and thugs hired by his regime was from an eye witness who was there watching it all unfold and he was giving his view on events that was being aired live on the BBC.

This is is very different to the BBC actually reporting themselves that the pro mubarak supporters were not spontaneous , but planned and supported by the regime.

Even for the BBC its pretty hard to stop someone half way through a live interview or edit what they have said due to time restraints as they have done previously.

So just for you Lee I am still not OK with the BBC.

The situation in Egypt can not be compared to the situation in Iran.

The uprising taking place in Egypt is genuine and it is across all levels of Egyptian society.Critically it is not being supported by any external forces, if anything the external forces have done and continue to support the unpopular regime.

The protests in Iran and the 'green' non revolution was supported and funded by external forces in an attempt to overthrow the powerful structure that holds Iran together and makes them one of the few remaining independent sovereign nations on the planet that continues to defy the United States at all costs.

the below link gives some good backround on the relationship between the US and Iran over the years.

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?iran_general_topic_areas=us_force_against_iran_covertOperations&timeline=us_plans_to_use_military_force_against_iran

Compare this relationship to the one between the US and Egypt and it could not be more different.

Egypt is the 2nd largest benefactor of US aid , an average of $ 2 Billion annually since 1979 , they are second only to Israel.

Why has the US been pumping Billions of $ into Egypt? Because it is a linchpin in their foreign policy.

Where has all this aid gone? Clearly the regime have become filthy rich and the Army have been large benefactors of US aid so I think the states are hoping this leverage with the army will see them okay but who knows.

Wouldn't it be ironic if F-16's paid for by the US taxpayer end up one day carrying out an attack on neighbours Israel?

This is one of main reasons Israel and the States are very worried by the turn of events in Egypt.

Stan I have not credited Israel with having any involvement in Egypt.
They have been friends in a political and military sense under Mubarak but the Egyptian people on the streets will not be flag waving friends of Israel.
They will feel shame and anger at the way Egypt has worked with Israel to deprive the heroic people of Gaza.
One thing is for sure if a democratic process does take place then the relations with Israel and the US will change overnight.