qprdot.org

[Lee Gib]

[W13hoop]

It would seem Mubarak has not killed enough of his own people, he fancies taking out a few more.

It looks like that is the only outcome now , today feels like a potential tipping point.

Here is to hoping that does not happen but I think it is inevitable after Mubaraks incredibly arrogant and absurd speech last night.

[Don]

The bloke's had everything his own way for 30 years and he's in his ninth decade. You expect realism and humility?

Now, about my earlier idea. I see Lee's with me. And it worked befo ... oh ...
_________________
I'm Ray Gardner. I drink Blackcurrant Tango. Come and get me!

[W13hoop]

I do not expect it from him personally but what are his handlers the US and Israel ordering him to do?

It is absolutely in their interests for him to remain in power by hook or by crook.

The US and Israel do not care about the fact his regime has already killed hundreds of Egyptians and I doubt they are worried about any further potential bloodshed.

Even good old TB loves Mubarak , note this was said after his regime killed hundreds of his own people, I find that unacceptable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/tony-blair-mubarak-courageous-force-for-good-egypt

[W13hoop]

"People want a different system of government. They're going to get it. The question is what emerges from that. In particular I think the key challenge for us is how do we help partner this process of change and help manage it in such a way that what comes out of it is open minded, fair, democratic government," he said.

who does he think he is?

Its exactly this type of western arrogance that people all over the world find offensive.

Who is Tony Blair to 'help manage' the process in Egypt?

and when he says 'we' who is he talking about?

[W13hoop]

finally Mubarak has gone!

amazing scenes from Egypt!

this is a huge event that will change things in the region forever.

Hearing Angela Merkel talk about how she hopes Egypt keep the peace deal with Israel is a bore , how about you congratulate the Egyptian people rather than proclaim your love for Israel! honestly what an embarrassment.

And she even made an offer of refuge to Mubarak last week in Germany! I very much doubt the German people share her opinions on this.

Congratulations to Egypt on this historic day.

[gblockpete]

Yeah right, power handed over to the Army, and that's a good thing how?

Also, the US is happy, Germany is happy, even call me Dave is happy, which probably means the Egyptian people ain't gonna be happy.

[W13hoop]

The US will claim they are happy publicly as cabbage patch has done but behind the scenes I very much doubt they are happy about what is happening in Egypt.

Anything that happens without them being in control is bad news and this revolution was/is clearly a genuine revolution by the people of Egypt and nobody else.

The Egyptian army are incredibly popular with the people and they seem to be happy to trust them to take control and assist in the process to democracy.

Israel are gutted for a number of reasons one of which is they can now no longer claim to be 'the only democracy in the middle east'.

If Egypt makes it then they will be the most powerful democracy in the middle east and I think Israel are pig at that thought.

One thing is for sure , this will change the balance of power in the region and hopefully it will be good news for the people of Palestine.

Mubarak has supported Israel against the will of the Egyptian people in the suppression of the Palestinians, this will be one of their first priorities to reverse.

[Stan]

if this brings in democracy it will only be good for Israel, however you want to spin it. That's the long & the short of it.

With any luck this will spur the Syrians, Iranians & Saudis to demand democracy & bring down the despotic regimes that deliberately keeps them uneducated & poverty stricken. Here's hoping

Finally, there's a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel for the middle east.
_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

[W13hoop]

I am glad you are being positive Stan , but from what I have read you are pretty much in the minority in thinking that this is good news for Israel.

If a democratic civilian government is formed in Egypt then the relations between the two countries will change.

The peace agreement and the gas supply are two things that will come under the microscope , I would imagine the Egyptians have demands in relation to the Palestinians and it will be up to Israel to be willing to negotiate on this critical issue.

At the moment the Egyptians hold a strong hand and this is causing considerable uncertainty in Israel hence the complete silence since Mubaraks departure.

It would be nice if they could find it within themselves to congratulate the Egyptian people but no they are too upset they have lost their man and do not know what to do about it.

If Israel is interested in peace and the safety of its citizens they will have no option but to completely change their current policies in relation to Gaza and the occupied territories.

If they are unwilling to do that then Egypt could become a potential enemy and one with a very strong military to boot.

With considerable US aid to the tune of 1.3 Billion USD per year the Egyptian army has strengthened considerably.

Lets hope the army facilitate the change demanded by the people as soon as possible and Egypt can become a fair and democratic country that the people can be proud of.

[Stan]

If Egypt becomes an enemy they can kiss goodbye to every cent they get from America. Militarily it already is no contest even with US aid. Without it it'll be another turkey shoot. But they'll be no war no matter how much idiots like you yearn for it.

What we've seen is a secular uprising. This is a setback for radical Islam & a setback for all authoritarian regimes in the middle east, including Hamas.

The gas could be an issue in the short term, but 80% of Jordan's gas needs comes from Egypt & it all has to go through Israel, so Egypt will think very carefully before they pull the plug because not only will it hurt their Jordanian brothers but it'll also severely damage they're own economy. In 24 months Israel will be self sufficient in Gas anyway.

Nope, I cant see this being anything but positive for Israel & the whole region in the long term.
_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

[W13hoop]

Egypt will only become an enemy if Israel is unwilling to negotiate and change its policies accordingly.

The large majority of human beings across the world think what Israel is doing in Gaza is wrong, the pressure on them to stop the human rights violations will increase as a result of Mubarak's departure.

I am not yearning for any war Stan , if you do not know that I am anti war by now then you obviously have not been paying any attention.

It has been 100% secular which is what makes it all the more genuine and powerful , the west and Israel are desperate to make this a Muslim issue but as of yet they are unable to throw those labels instead all you are hearing is of the potential threat to the world if the evil 'brotherhood' get in power!

...we will all be doomed! honestly give it a rest!

How about we just keep out of their business and let them create the democracy they want? And if that results in the 'brotherhood' so be it!

Is that not how democracy works? or are the Egyptians not allowed to have a democracy because they are Arabs?

Another classic case of western hypocrisy.

[Stan]

If Egyptians really do get democracy, Israel has nothing to fear. That's all I've ever said & I firmly believe that.

If you've paid any attention at all the only issues that caused this uprising are domestic issues. There's been no Israeli & US flag burning, no demonstrations outside the US or Israeli embassies. Nothing.

Only people like you have tried to make this about anything but domestic issues, for your own ends thereby showing you really dont give a toss about democracy for the Egyptians but just want to see your own narrow agenda advanced.

Your comments in this thread have proved that, not that we didn't know anyway.
_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

[W13hoop]

Where have I said that this uprising was a result of the Egyptian people disliking the US or Israel!?

The issues are indeed primarily domestic, however the Egyptian people are not stupid and they know that Mubarak was supported by both the US and Israel and as a result the people of Egypt will not think too kindly of either country and understandably so.

Under Mubarak Egypt has become a very strong ally of the US and Israel and that has played a massive role in the balance of power in the region.

If the Egyptian people have their say in a true democratic way there is no doubt that will change.

You seem to think the Egyptians love the US and Israel , the reality on the ground is very very different.

[Stan]