qprdot.org

Stan · Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject:

I'm not to concerned about Turkey's hissy fit. Relations between Israel & Turkey pretty much ended in 2006 so no matter what crap the Turkish Govt is spouting atm, nothing much will change. Militarily Turkey is no threat.

However, the report by the UN Commission investigating the Flotilla was brilliant for Israel...the blockade is legal under international law & Israel's actions were legal under international law.

Was Israel heavy handed? Well according to the report they were so hopefully the mistakes that were made wont be repeated. I think we saw with the recent flotilla that the lessons have been learnt.

As for the current demonstrations, the demonstrators are correct but the demonstrations aren't really directed at Bibi, they're directed at the last 20 or so Israeli Govt. Unemployment in Israel hit a 28 year low this week, tourism is booming & the economy is growing at a healthy rate but like in every other country in the West, the money isn't filtering down below the elite & that's what the demonstrations are really about.

The bigger picture though is very bright for Israel. Democracy is very strong there & there hasn't been any violence whatsoever (compare & contrast that to most other countries) & every part of Israeli society is taking part in these protests. Secular Israelis, religious Israelis, settlers, Arab Israelis. All Israelis should be proud of the protests imo.

I saw a good quote from one of the protesters...everybody is prepared to die for Israel, but nobody can afford to live in Israel. Tat sums it up in a nutshell I think.

Hopefully "social justice" will evolve from these protests. I think Israel could possibly lead the world in that respect if she can pull that off.
_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

W13hoop · Level 3 dot.orger Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Posts: 1319

I am not surprised at the way you dismiss the Turkey problems so lightly.
I happen to think the dramatic deterioration in relations is significant for a number of reasons.

Firstly Turkey was an important friend and ally of Israel in a region where Israels friends are few and far between.

Turkey have also cut all military ties between the two counties which is a significant development as pointed out by Gordon Duff in the article below.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/03/israeli-at-risk-fear-of-delegitimization-pushes-israelis-extremists-to-consider-terrorism/

It seems Israel was planning on using military bases in Georgia as a launchpad for an attack on Iran , they were able to smuggle planes into Georgia through Turkey , this now will not be an option for them which could be very important in a strategic sense.

Erdogan has shown he is not afraid of standing up to Israel and is very popular at home and abroad for this stance.
He has also survived 2 assassination attempts to date and will no doubt be on Mossads radar with the relationship getting worse.

He has openly said he wants to increase his countries ties with Egypt and they have also spoken about increasing their navy presence in the eastern med to assist civilian ships and counter Israeli bullying.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-turkey-navy-to-escort-aid-ships-to-palestinians-in-gaza-1.382305

Turkey by themselves may not be a direct threat but its the balance of power shifting against Israel again , first Egypt and now Turkey do not try and pretend Israel does not care.

Re your comments on the protests I have to laugh out loud , you make Israel sound like a haven of peace and human rights! Why don't you go and live there if it is so great ?
_________________
'we were there to document the event'

Stan · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject:

Virginia_R · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:34 am Post subject:

This Middle East thingy *still* not sorted? Perhaps we should sent Tony Blair over to sort it pronto, seeing he's at a bit of loose end these days.
_________________
www.arilyfaith.com
http://herschelmission.wordpress.com/
http://playingwithdust.wordpress.com/
-------------

Stan · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject:

He;s there right now trying to weave his magic Laughing

_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

W13hoop · Level 3 dot.orger Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Posts: 1319

'On a practical level trade wont be interupted at all & all military & political links ended years ago'

haha , come on Stan this is getting too easy.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n258837

Mr Erdogan happens to have a different opinion and as he is the PM of Turkey I think his opinion has more sway than yours , trade is over.

As for your comment that military and political ties ended years ago you are showing higher than normal levels of ignorance on this one.

Up until the 2nd of this Month of this year , so 4 days ago Turkey and Israel had a military collaboration which has now been suspended by Turkey.

Erdogan is rightly seen as a brave man for taking this stance as he well knows that his life is under threat from Israeli agents.
They dont like it when powerful people don't play ball and highlight Israeli crimes against the Palestinians the way Erdogan has and continues to do.

All they wanted was an apology for the killings on the boat and Israel couldn't even manage that , which is hardly a surprise given the way they value non Jewish blood.

Your crowing about your new Greek buddies helping you stop a humanitarian aid mission to the people of Gaza is another sign of your sickness and lack of compassion and it is not something to be proud of.

Again if you love Israeli democracy so much quit talking and go and live there.
_________________
'we were there to document the event'

Lee Gib · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject:

Sigh. Do all threads eventually lead to Israel? Just hope and pray davef doesn't derail you by checking your grammar.
_________________

W13hoop · Level 3 dot.orger Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Posts: 1319

Yawn.

Other Israeli threads have been locked , lets hope this thread isn't.

I am looking forward to Stan's response from my previous post.
_________________
'we were there to document the event'

DG · Site Admin Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 5533

If you turn it back into the other thread, it will be locked.
_________________
Just keep calm. Smile

Stan · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject:

Well your pal PM Error has today clarified what he actually meant by "cutting all trade" with Israel. He didn't actually mean he'd cut all trade it seems Laughing

.

Do a little bit of research as to what that clarification was. I'll post a link if you want, but I'll be interested to see if any of your super dooper news sites, which are totally unbiased of course, have reported on it.

Here's a starter for 10:

W13hoop · Level 3 dot.orger Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Posts: 1319

Its very easy to tell you are an outsider by the rubbish you state as facts when it comes to Israel.

As Gilad Atzmon says very well ,Israel is the one who should think twice about upsetting Turkey.

If the mighty IDF cannot defeat under equipped forces like Hezbollah and Hamas then it has no hope of defeating a real country with a real military like Turkey unless of course it gets the US to fight its wars for her like it did in Iraq and is trying to do with Iran.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/07/gilad-atzmon-israel-better-think-twice/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gilad-atzmon-israel-better-think-twice

The only facts are Israel is losing more of its few friends and support against the country is growing as the well timed protest of the Israeli Philharmonic orchestra live on BBC radio at the royal albert hall demonstrated the other night , this will become more and more common place as the world unites to end the occupation of Gaza.
_________________
'we were there to document the event'

Stan · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject:

sorry to disappoint you, Israel & Turkey aren't going to war.

btw, surely the same applies to Turkey & the Kurds?
_________________
next year, we'll be champions..

DG · Site Admin Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 5533

Last warning. No more Israel v anyone else. Enough. Go do it somewhere else.

DG
_________________
Just keep calm. Smile

Don · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:21 am Post subject:

Lads, perhaps you should change the argument to one about Berwick upon Tweed instead. Pick a side each. One of you can claim that The Bruce was a tyrant, the other that Edward III was an ethnic cleanser. I shall pop up to claim that Teddy3 was a brilliant ruler who wouldn't have needed to do what he did if his equally brilliant grandad had finished the job.

It's a well known fact that DG can't understand metaphors and allusions. In fact he still thinks the main board is actually about Queens Park Rangers! Imagine!

Live long & prosper.
_________________
I'm Ray Gardner. I drink Blackcurrant Tango. Come and get me!

wrinklyhoop · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: