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UxbridgeR
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 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| flatfoot wrote: | | That's the problem with people's opinions on goalkeepers - most people don't have a clue what they are talking about. |
Unless they agree with you, obviously..
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flatfoot
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Location: st margarets
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| UxbridgeR wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | Nope, anyone who listened to me last season would have heard me say the same thing about Kenny. Didn't think he was good enough for us last season, thought we could have done better with someone else between the sticks, feel no different this season.
I have just brought it up because I might not be on my own in my opinion at this stage... |
You didn't think the keeper that played 44 games and kept 25 clean sheets in a Championship winning team was good enough for us ?
Given he was the supporters' POTY and the players' POTY, I think you may have been out on a limb on that one. Saying we could have done better with someone else seems rather meaningless, as it could apply to any player. |
I know I am out on a limb, but I know about goalkeepers. There is a different set of rules in gauging how good a goalkeeper is, and Kenny has never been good enough, in my opinion.
The reason why the fans like him - and probably managers - is because he makes these last ditch stops. I would attest that this is because he is not a good enough keeper.
If he were a better keeper he would be in a better position more often and not have to make last ditch saves.
Our record last season was in spite of him not because of him.
I remember not knowing whether Seaman was a great shot stopper or not until later on in his career because his bossing of his area, and his claiming of crosses, and marshalling of his defence was so damned good. Can't say any of the above about Paddy I'm afraid... |
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flatfoot
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| UxbridgeR wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | | That's the problem with people's opinions on goalkeepers - most people don't have a clue what they are talking about. |
Unless they agree with you, obviously.. |
Not necessarily, but I am yet to see a cogent argument about why Kenny is so good. A lot of stats that are meaningless (are clean sheets really solely down to keepers, if so why do great goalkeepers concede goals at all?), and emotive opinion. But cogent argument there is none.
Over to you Uxbridge... |
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Mr Beef
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| flatfoot wrote: | | Micky wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | Nope, anyone who listened to me last season would have heard me say the same thing about Kenny. Didn't think he was good enough for us last season, thought we could have done better with someone else between the sticks, feel no different this season.
I have just brought it up because I might not be on my own in my opinion at this stage... |
Yeah you're right I often wonder how much better we'd have done last season without Kenny. I can't help but think that his 24 clean sheets and player of the year award were tarnished by his poor positioning for the goals he conceded and his failure to shout loudly at his defence. |
That's the problem with people's opinions on goalkeepers - most people don't have a clue what they are talking about. Just ask Arsene Wenger... |
Thankfully we've got you to put us right. A better keeper would have got 30 clean sheets. |
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flatfoot
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mr Beef wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | | Micky wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | Nope, anyone who listened to me last season would have heard me say the same thing about Kenny. Didn't think he was good enough for us last season, thought we could have done better with someone else between the sticks, feel no different this season.
I have just brought it up because I might not be on my own in my opinion at this stage... |
Yeah you're right I often wonder how much better we'd have done last season without Kenny. I can't help but think that his 24 clean sheets and player of the year award were tarnished by his poor positioning for the goals he conceded and his failure to shout loudly at his defence. |
That's the problem with people's opinions on goalkeepers - most people don't have a clue what they are talking about. Just ask Arsene Wenger... |
Thankfully we've got you to put us right. A better keeper would have got 30 clean sheets. |
Maybe, maybe not. But at least I wouldn't have to watch a keeper that plants his heels too often, or who lacks the capability or core strength to reposition in the air (as Hennessy did to save Tarrabt's shot the other week). What irks is that, often than not, hiring a good goalkeeper is the cheapest and most effective way to shore up your defence.
A general for the price of a foot soldier. |
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Micky
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Mr Beef wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | | Micky wrote: | | flatfoot wrote: | Nope, anyone who listened to me last season would have heard me say the same thing about Kenny. Didn't think he was good enough for us last season, thought we could have done better with someone else between the sticks, feel no different this season.
I have just brought it up because I might not be on my own in my opinion at this stage... |
Yeah you're right I often wonder how much better we'd have done last season without Kenny. I can't help but think that his 24 clean sheets and player of the year award were tarnished by his poor positioning for the goals he conceded and his failure to shout loudly at his defence. |
That's the problem with people's opinions on goalkeepers - most people don't have a clue what they are talking about. Just ask Arsene Wenger... |
Thankfully we've got you to put us right. A better keeper would have got 30 clean sheets. |
It's ok- he's a goalkeeper. Perhaps Mark Hughes should give you a game, flatfoot? |
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W12Allstars
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm listening Flatfoot, as I know bugger all about goalkeepers.
And I have to say that what you've said so far makes sense. It does seem that good GKs are not easy to find though.
Any recommendations?
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Dunc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about any of the technical goalkeeping stuff, but I do think that Paddy let's the opposition fans get to him when taking his kicks. This was most prevalent at Stoke where they were constantly on his back, meaning he repeatedly sliced his kicks.
I think he's liked as a shot stopper, which has already been stated on here, but also because he's a bit of a character. A lot of goalkeepers fade into the background.
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bongo king
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Mark C wrote: | | Kenny was phenominal last season and deserved the award. This season, despite starting well and having a couple of good performances he has gotten worse and looks slightly out of his depth. He does not install the same confidence in me that I had in him last year but I'd like to keep him around as we will need him in the Championship next season |
Spot on. I don't know why his performances have dropped this way, I don't buy into him being too good for the champ and not good enough for the prem... either last year was a blip, or this year is a blip IMO. Recent goals which stand out that a better keeper / the kenny of last year would have saved include blackburn #2, at least one of the wolves goals, Wigan freekick.... IMO for all of these he was caught flat footed and failed to save a goal he was actually standing pretty close to... |
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Micky
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Dunc wrote: | | I don't know about any of the technical goalkeeping stuff, but I do think that Paddy let's the opposition fans get to him when taking his kicks. This was most prevalent at Stoke where they were constantly on his back, meaning he repeatedly sliced his kicks. |
The same game in which Kenny was injured in the warm up and played through the pain barrier because Murphy injured himself in the warm up more severely? |
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UxbridgeR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| flatfoot wrote: | Not necessarily, but I am yet to see a cogent argument about why Kenny is so good. A lot of stats that are meaningless (are clean sheets really solely down to keepers, if so why do great goalkeepers concede goals at all?), and emotive opinion. But cogent argument there is none.
Over to you Uxbridge... |
I wouldn't suggest for a moment that the clean sheets were solely down to PK, but he certainly played his part last season. The question of whether or not he's a "good" goalkeeper is surely relative..He was more than good enough for a Championship team that wasn't keen to spend a lot of money on transfer fees. Whether he's good enough for the Premeir League may be more of a moot point, but as Mcky has said, the idea that the answer to all our problems is to simply keep signing new players is getting pretty tiresome. A good team will be greater than the sum of its individual parts, as we were last season. Right now, we're the polar opposite of that.
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flatfoot
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| W12Allstars wrote: | I'm listening Flatfoot, as I know bugger all about goalkeepers.
And I have to say that what you've said so far makes sense. It does seem that good GKs are not easy to find though.
Any recommendations? |
Igor Akinfeev, 25, CSKA Moscow. Was no1 Man Utd target before they went for De Gea. Awesome keeper who might cost a bit, but would be worth it...
Dean Bouzanis, 21, Aussie keeper bought to Liverpool as the best of his age in the world. Left by mutual agreement (Kenny, who knows so much about keeping, doesn't like him) currently at Oldham looking for a better club..
Sinan Bolat, 23, Turkish international keeper who made his debut for the national side just recently. Plays for Standard Liege, who bought him for £150k. Would be a bargain for a keeper with Champions League experience... |
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Mark C
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Akinfeev is a very good keeper but I think he'll go onto bigger things. A more realistic target who I'd like us to go for is Guillermo Ochoa. I'ev seen him play quite a few times for Mexico and he looks pretty sturdy.
Al Habsi would be my first choice though
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Dunc
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Joined: 02 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Micky wrote: | | Dunc wrote: | | I don't know about any of the technical goalkeeping stuff, but I do think that Paddy let's the opposition fans get to him when taking his kicks. This was most prevalent at Stoke where they were constantly on his back, meaning he repeatedly sliced his kicks. |
The same game in which Kenny was injured in the warm up and played through the pain barrier because Murphy injured himself in the warm up more severely? |
Oh, quite possibly. It was very noticable in that game anyway.
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flatfoot
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Location: st margarets
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark C wrote: | Akinfeev is a very good keeper but I think he'll go onto bigger things. A more realistic target who I'd like us to go for is Guillermo Ochoa. I'ev seen him play quite a few times for Mexico and he looks pretty sturdy.
Al Habsi would be my first choice though |
Ochoa is the real deal. Personally, not convinced about Al Habsi. Wonder whether he falls into the shot stopper category. His positioning is remedial and causes more problems than his agility can fix... |
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